Ex Warriors who have made it to the NBA Finals

(Photo from NBAtradeJournal)

Most basketball heads talk about how the Warriors let great/pretty good players go such as Gilbert Arenas, Antawn Jamison, Jason Richardson, Baron Davis, Mike Dunleavy, Troy Murphy, etc. And yeah, these guys are pretty darn good at what they do and yes, the Warriors have hardly been the team to beat since letting those players go. But while they've produced nice numbers and made the playoffs, they've never been to the Finals. Those that did leave the Warriors were mainly role players and no stars on the team they were representing in the said Finals. Just something to keep in mind. Read between your baselines.

Here is a list of ex warriors players who have made the finals since the 1999-2000 season. Bolded are the ones who actually won the championship. In parenthesis are how many years after they left the warriors they made it to the Finals. Listed in order of how quickly they made the finals after leaving the Warriors.

DJ Mbenga, 2008 and 2009 Lakers, 2008 Warriors (1yr)

• Best year with Warriors: First half of 2007-2008, 1.2 pts, 1.9 reb, .6 blk, 39% FG
  
• Last year as a Warrior: Same as above
  
• Best year after being a warrior on finals team: 2008-2009, 2.7 pts, 1.3 reb, 1 blk, 47% FG
  
• Year on the finals team: Same as above
  
• Best year after warriors team on any team: Same as above
  

Mickael Pietrus 2009 Magic, 2004-2008 Warriors (1 yr)

• Best year with Warriors: 2006-2007, 11 pts, 4.5 reb, 1.3 3ptm, 48.8% FG
  
• Last year as a Warrior: 2007-2008, 7.2 pts, 3.7 reb, 1 3ptm, 43.9% FG
  
• Best year after being a warrior on finals team: 2008-2009, 9.4 pts, 3.3 reb, 1.5 3ptm, 41.3% FG
  
• Year on the finals team: Same as above
  
• Best year after warriors team on any team: Same as above
  

Adonal Foyle 2009 Magic, 1998-2007 Warriors (2 yrs)

• Best year with Warriors: 2000-2001, 5.9 pts, 7 reb, 2.7 blk, 41.6% FG
  
• Last year as a Warrior: 2006-2007, 2.2 pts, 2.6 reb, 1 blk, 56.5% FG
  
• Best year after being a warrior on finals team: 2009 Orlando, 1.9 pts, 2.9 reb, .9 blk, 63.6% FG
  
• Year on the finals team: Same as above
  
• Best year after warriors team on any team: Same as above
  

Erick Dampier, 2006 Mavericks, 1998-2004 Warriors (2 yrs)

• Best year with Warriors: 2003-2004, 12.3 pts, 12 reb, 1.9 blk, 53.5% FG
  
• Last year as a Warrior: Same as above
  
• Best year after being a warrior on finals team: 2004-2005 Mavs, 9.2 pts, 8.5 reb, 1.4 blk, 55% FG
  
• Year on the finals team: 2005-2006 Mavs, 5.7 pts, 7.8 reb, 1.3 blk, 49.3% FG
  
• Best year after warriors team on any team: See 2004-2005 Mavs above
  

Derek Fisher, 2008 and 2009 Finals, 2005-06 Warriors (2 yrs)

• Best year with Warriors: 2005-2006, 13.3 pts, 2.1 reb, 4.3 ast, 1.5 st, 1.4 3ptm, 41% FG
  
• Last year as a Warrior: Same as above
  
• Best year after being a warrior on finals team: 2007-2008 Lakers, 11.7 pts, 1.8 reb, 2.9 ast, 1.0 st, 1.4 3ptm, 43.6% FG
  
• Year on the finals team: see above and 2008-2009 Lakers, 9.9 pts, 2.3 reb, 3.2 ast, 1.2 st, 1.5 3 ptm, 42.4% FG
  
• Best year after warriors team on any team: See 2008-2009 Lakers above
  

Josh Powell, 2009 Finals, 2007 Warriors (2 yrs)

• Best year with Warriors: 2006-2007, 3.5 pts, 2.3 reb, 52.6% FG
• Last year as a Warrior: Same as above
  
• Best year after being a warrior on finals team: 2008-2009 Lakers, 4.2 pts, 2.9 reb, 44.4% FG
  
• Year on the finals team: Same as above
  
• Best year after warriors team on any team: 2007-2008 Clippers, 5.5 pts, 5.2 reb, 46% FG
  

Brian Shaw - 2000-2002 Lakers, 1998 Warriors (2 yrs)

• Best year with Warriors: 1998, 6.4 pts, 3.9 reb, 4.4 ast, 33.6 FG%
  
• Last year as a Warrior: Same as above
  
• Best year after being a warrior on finals team: 2000-2001 Lakers, 5.3 pts, 3.8 reb, 3.2 ast, 39.9% FG
  
• Year on the finals team: 1999-2000 Lakers, 4.1 pts, 2.9 reb, 2.7 ast, 38.2% FG, above 2001 Lakers, 2001-2002 Lakers, 2.9 pts, 1.9 reb, 1.5 ast, 35.3% FG
  
• Best year after warriors team on any team: See above 2000-2001 Lakers
  

Chris Mullin - 2000 Pacers, 1986-1997 Warriors (3 yrs)

• Best year with Warriors: 1988-89 26.5 pts, 5.9 reb, 5.1 ast, 2.1 stl, 50.9% FG
  
• Last year as a Warrior: 1996-97 14.5 pts, 4 reb, 4.1 ast, 1.6 stl, 53.3% FG
  
• Best year after being a warrior on finals team: 1997-98 Pacers, 11.3 pts, 3 reb, 2.3 ast, 1.2 stl, 48.1% FG
  
• Year on the finals team: 1999-2000 Pacers 5.1 pts, 1.6 reb, .8 ast, 42.8% FG
  
• Best year after warriors team on any team: 1997-98 season above.
  

Larry Hughes, 2007 Cavs, 2000-2002 Warriors (5 yrs)

• Best year with Warriors: 2000-2001, 16.5 pts, 5.5 reb, 4.5 ast, 1.9 stl, 38.3% FG
  
• Last year as a Warrior: 2001-2002, 12.3 pts, 3.4 reb, 4.3 ast, 1.5 stl, 42.3% FG
  
• Best year after being a warrior on finals team: 2005-2006 Cavs, 15.5 pts, 4.5 reb, 3.6 ast, 1.5 stl, 40.9% FG
  
• Year on the finals team: 2006-2007 Cavs, 14.9 pts, 3.8 reb, 3.7 ast, 1.3 stl, 40% FG
  
• Best year after warriors team on any team: 2004-2005 Wizards, 22 pts, 6.3 reb, 4.7 ast, 2.9 stl (league leader), 43% FG
  

Kevin Willis - 2003 Spurs, 1996 Warriors (7 yrs)

• Best year with Warriors: Second half of 1995-1996 season, 11.3 pts, 7.8 reb, 43.3% FG
  
• Last year as a Warrior: Same as above
  
• Best year after being a warrior on finals team: 2002-2003 Spurs, 4.2 pts, 3.2 reb, 47.9% FG
  
• Year on the finals team: Same as above
  
• Best year after warriors team on any team: 1997-1998 Rockets, 16.1 pts, 8.4 reb, 51% FG
  

Damon Jones, 2007 Cavs, 2000 Warriors (7 yrs)

• Best year with Warriors: First half of 1999-2000 season, 5.2 pts, 3 ast, 46.3% FG
  
• Last year as a Warrior: Sames as above
  
• Best year after being a warrior on finals team: 2005-2006 Cavs, 6.7 pts, 2.1 ast, 38.7% FG
  
• Year on the finals team: 2006-2007 Cavs, 6.6 pts, 1.6 ast, 38.6% FG
  
• Best year after warriors team on any team: 2004-2005 Heat, 11.6 pts, 4.3 ast, 2.7 3ptm, 45.6% FG
  

Donyell Marshall 2007 Cavs, 1995-2000 Warriors (7 yrs)

• Best year with Warriors: 1999-2000, 14.2 pts, 10 reb, 2.6 ast, 1.1 stl, 1.1 blk, 39.4% FG
  
• Last year as a Warrior: Same as above
  
• Best year after being a warrior on finals team: 2005-2006 Cavs, 9.3 pts, 6.1 reb, .7 ast, .7 stl, .5 blk, 39.5% FG
  
• Year on the finals team: 2006-2007 Cavs, 7 pts, 4 reb, .6 ast, .5 stl, .5 blk, 42.4% FG
  
• Best year after warriors team on any team: Second half of 2003-2004 season on Toronto, 16.2 pts, 10.7 reb, 1.4 ast, 1.2 stl, 1.6 blk, 46.7% FG
  

Tyrone Hill - 2001 76ers, 1991-1993 Warriors (8 yrs)

• Best year with Warriors:1992-1993, 8.6 pts, 10.2 reb, 50.8% FG
  
• Last year as a Warrior: Same as above
  
• Best year after being a warrior on finals team: 2000-2001 76ers, 9.6 pts, 9 reb, 47.4% FG
  
• Year on the finals team: Same as above
  
• Best year after warriors team on any team: 1994-1995 Cavs, 13.8 pts, 10.9 reb, 50.4% FG
  

Mitch Richmond - 2002 Lakers, 89-91 Warriors (11 yrs)

• Best year with Warriors: 1990-1991, 23.9 pts, 5.9 reb, 3.1 ast, 1.6 stl, 49.4% FG
  
• Last year as a Warrior: Same as above
  
• Best year after being a warrior on finals team: 2001-2002 Lakers, 4.1 pts, 1.5 reb, .9 ast, .3 stl, 40.5% FG
  
• Year on the finals team: Same as above
  
• Best year after warriors team on any team:1996-1997 Kings, 25.9 pts, 3.9 reb, 4.2 ast, 1.5 stl, 45.4% FG
  

Tony Massenburg, 2005 Spurs, 1992 Warriors (13 yrs)

• Best year with Warriors: 7 games of last part of 1991-1992 Warriors, 2.3 pts, 1.7 reb, 62.5% FG
  
• Last year as a Warrior: Same as above
  
• Best year after being a warrior on finals team: 2004-2005 Spurs, 3.2 pts, 2.7 reb, 40.7% FG
  
• Year on the finals team: Same as above
  
• Best year after warriors team on any team:1998-1999 Vancouver Grizzlies, 11.2 pts, 6 reb, 48.7% FG

Read between the baselines

None of these players were THE MAN on the team that made the finals. Most were role players not providing any real help with the exception of Larry Hughes, Mickael Pietrus, Derek Fisher, and a little bit of Donyell Marshall. The stars on the Warriors that made the Finals with other teams were mainly just along for the ride (Mitch Richmond, Chris Mullin). Erick Dampier seemed to provide his Warrior-like numbers as a starting center for the Dallas Mavericks. Larry Hughes provided some nice scoring and defensive numbers for the Cavs, also as a starter. And Derek Fisher got some nice exposure this year during the Finals with his cluth 3 pt shooting, but still, not a star, but a nice role player to have.

As for the latest stars to depart from the Warriors? Baron Davis is rebuilding on the Clippers. Gilbert Arenas is cashing in nicely for being hurt most of the time. Antawn Jamison is watching him from the court on a losing Wizards squad. Jason Richardson is in Phoenix as the playoffs seem further away with the loss of Shaq and Amare talking about maybe leaving next year. Finally, Mike Dunleavy and Troy Murphy are close to making the playoffs in Indiana, but Dunleavy's been hurt this past season. Good players, but what do they have to show for it? Don't be so quick to bash the Warriors. Hopefully, for their sake, Stephen Curry and Anthony Randolph can do some good things for the Bay Area Basketball fans.

Those are the facts. And that's one way to read between the [base]lines.

Dallas off-season moves, hello Shawn Marion!

(Photo from TutorialDog)
The Dallas Mavericks haven't really bounced back since losing in 6 games to the Miami Heat in the Finals of the 2005-2006 season. After that season they lost in the first round to the Golden State Warriors, and after that season, they lost in the first round to the New Orleans Hornets and this past season, they lost in the 2nd round to the Denver Nuggets. They had some decisions to make this off-season and they haven't thrown in the towel. Instead of letting the Lakers repeat, the Celtics retake the league, the Spurs and Richard Jefferson to come back or Orlando or Cleveland to win their first championship, Mark Cuban opened his wallet and let it rain.

Facts:

• Dallas trades Jerry Stackhouse (to the Grizzlies), Devean George and Antoine Wright (to the Raptors) for Shawn Marion, Kris Humphries, and Greg Buckner.
• Dallas signs F/C Drew Gooden for one year.
• Dallas re-signs PG Jason Kidd for three years.
• Dallas signs F Tim Thomas for one year.
• Dallas signs G Quinton Ross (undisclosed details).
• Dallas signed Orlando C Marcin Gortat, but Orlando matched the offer, keeping him in Orlando.
  

Contracts:

• Shawn Marion was signed (and traded) for 5 years/$39 million (average $7.8 mil per year).
  
• Kris Humphries is owed $3.2 mil with a player option for $3.2 mil in 2010.
  
• Greg Buckner is owed $4 mil with a player option for $4.2 mil in 2010.
  
• Drew Gooden was signed for $4.5 mil, FA in 2010.
  
• Jason Kidd was signed for 3 years/$25 million (average $8.3 mil per year).
  
• Tim Thomas was signed for the veteran minimum: $1.3 million.
  
• Quinton Ross' details were undisclosed.

Read between the baselines:
(Photo from reclinergm)
The big deal here is for Shawn Marion who is nicknamed the Matrix. Anyone who has played in a fantasy basketball league knows exactly what Shawn Marion is capable of and why he is called the Matrix. His last 2 years in Miami and Toronto, he was playing on the fly, but if we go back to his last FULL year in Phoenix (granted it was a run and gun offense) he scored 17.5 points on 52% FG, grabbed 9.8 rebounds, 1 3pter, 2 steals and 1.5 blocks per game. Short story shorter, he does it all. Here's what HoopsHype has to say about him:

"One of the best athletes in the league, outstanding leaping skills, jumps high and many times in a short period of time [pogo stick-like], drives to the basket without fear, runs the floor with the best of them, great defender, guards multiple positions, never gets tired."

He had 2 let down seasons when he was traded for Shaq to Miami, then traded to Tornoto for Jermaine O'Neal. Traded away from 2x MVP Steve Nash. Now in Dallas, he has a future hall of famer PG in Jason Kidd. It's safe to assume he will produce Matrix like numbers in Dallas. And for only $8 million a year, that seems like a great investment, even if he does fall off in the last couple years of the 5 year deal, but even that seems unlikely.

Greg Buckner and Kris Humphries were throwins in the deal, but that's not to say they can't contribute. Although Buckner isn't an offensive threat, he does have good defense. Humphries who's only been in the league for 5 years is a solid enough PF who could supply some decent bench minutes.

Tim Thomas, who seems to have been on every team in the league and is now a Maverick, can be a dependable 3 pt threat and has some offensive moves of his own. He's fallen off in the past couple seasons but he's played for the Clippers, Knicks, and only a handful of games for the Bulls. On a steady, solid playoff team like the Mavericks, he can contribute, if he knows his role.

Quinton Ross, another ex-Clipper, is known for his defense and can really lock on to players. He's been asked to guard the top scorers on opposing teams (at least during his time with the Clippers). He could be a very nice addition to the Dallas bench. The Mavericks are putting some D back in Dallas.

And last but not least, Jason Kidd, who at 36 years old can still produce close to triple double numbers. He's in the right situtaion with lots of offensive threats running alongside him. Another season of 9pts, 8 ast, and 6 rebounds with 2 steals, and a 3pter isn't out of the question. 3 years at 25 million is about what he's worth. And the Mavs couldn't let a player like Kidd go without having anyone to run the offense the way he does.

Last season, Dallas ranked 17th in DEF EFF, allowing 105.3 points per 100 possessions (next in line were Chicago, Indiana, Memphis and Oklahoma) The additions of Shawn Marion, Buckner and Ross could bring that number down a bit. Dallas didn't lose any key players (Jerry Stackhouse only played in 10 games last season, Devean George played minimal minutes in only 43 games, although Antoine Wright started at SG for a good portion of the season and playoffs, his loss will be reconciled with the new additions). Dallas may have to move around some positions to work out the details in the starting lineup, but they have versatile players who can play multiple positions.

Probable starting lineup/bench for the upcoming season:

PG: Jason Kidd/Jason Terry
SG: Josh Howard?/Jason Terry/Matt Carroll
SF: Shawn Marion/Tim Thomas
PF: Dirk Nowitzki/Drew Gooden/Tim Thomas
C: Erick Dampier/Drew Gooden/Kris Humphries

This is a deep team and Shawn Marion can fit in seemingly without disrupting any team chemistry. And with the supporting role players the Mavs have added, the team is deep with options on both offense and defense. Dallas hasn't gotten close to getting back to the Finals since the let down in 2006. Could Shawn Marion lift them back up? The Lakers, Cavs, Celtics, Spurs and Orlando are all the likely candidates for the championship for the next coming years, but stranger things have happened in the NBA and although unlikely, this could could COULD be a team that gives the league a lot of problems in the playoffs. Mark Cuban believes in this team and has given Dirk Nowitzki some quality supporting players. If he can play like an MVP, if Josh Howard, Jason Terry, and Shawn Marion do what they do on offense and defense, and if Jason Kidd can put the pieces together, this team is scary. Oh yeah, and Dirk Nowitzki was first team all NBA last season.

Those are the facts. And that's one way to read between the [base]lines.